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[Sheldon]

Hello everyone!

I have a question for the more experienced .pl investors. Are most or all .pl geos owned by the Polish government? This seems to be the case from what research I have done (with maybe a couple of rare exceptions).

In cases where the Polish government owns the .pl version of any particular geo domain, does that essentially mean that the .com version of that city or region then becomes top tier for Polish commercial development? Like for example Gdansk.pl vs. Gdansk.com, whereas Gdansk.com is a top tier domain, different from perhaps czas.com which would only be second tier, because czas.pl is open for commercial development?

I tried a while ago to buy one mid level Polish city .com, because I know there is going to be huge future growth in Poland, but it seems there is no way to do this without spending a very large amount of money, similar to what one might expect to pay for a US or Western European geo.

[Daniel Dryzek]

Hi Sheldon!
Please find list of all so-called "regional" domain names operated by Polish registry NASK below:
www.dns.pl: Regional domain names in NASK

Most of the geo domains is owned by the registry and you can only by sudomains like: something.warszawa.pl or somethingelse.szczecin.pl but those domains aren't too popular (they are not popular at all, there are only 4000 .warszawa.pl and .szczecin.pl sudomains registered - 3rd level domains, look the stats). This main domains like Internetowa Stolica Polski - or www.szczecin.pl are usually used by the government for the official site of the cities etc. In fact this is allowed to take your geo domain .pl from you and give to a city if they want to get it back.

That's why .com or .eu names can be really the only way to get clear and nice keyword but on other hand .com and also .eu domains aren't so popular in Poland, so maybe the better solution will be to buy some geo domain mixed with some other keyword but under .pl extension.

But even if you decide for Polish geo names in .com - it will cost you a lot - like you said.

DD

[Sheldon]

Hi Daniel! Thanks for the info. So pretending for a moment that money is no barrier to a Polish geo purchase, research would lead me to conclude that the following tiered value system applies. I left out .com.pl, just because that is an absolute abomination of a domain extension in my opinion (developed it gives x2 typo traffic to the .pl and .com).

gdansk.pl (government owned)

...

(1) gdansk.com (top tier / top value)

...

gdansk.eu (government owned)

...

(2) hotelegdansk.pl (second tier example)

(3) hotelegdansk.com (third tier example)

(4) hotelegdansk.eu (fourth tier example)

(5) hotelegdansk.info (fifth tier example)

...

Does this look correct? I think maybe .eu and .info could be on a similar value tier. I personally don't like either .info or .eu unless they are ultra premium keywords.

[Daniel Dryzek]

Originally Posted by Sheldon

Hi Daniel! Thanks for the info. So pretending for a moment that money is no barrier to a Polish geo purchase, research would lead me to conclude that the following tiered value system applies. I left out .com.pl, just because that is an absolute abomination of a domain extension in my opinion (developed it gives x2 typo traffic to the .pl and .com).

Good point made I also DO NOT recommend .com.pl investments It's getting less and less popular in Poland and I estimate that in few years almost nobody will use it.

[...]
Does this look correct? I think maybe .eu and .info could be on a similar value tier. I personally don't like either .info or .eu unless they are ultra premium keywords.

Quite correct for the moment .pl is the king for sure, then there is nothing, nothing and then .com but in my opinion this place will be replaced by .eu in the future that you may not agree.. but that's what I think. .eu needs time but sometime in the future it will get popular IMO.

DD

[Sheldon]

Originally Posted by Daniel Dryzek

Quite correct for the moment .pl is the king for sure, then there is nothing, nothing and then .com but in my opinion this place will be replaced by .eu in the future that you may not agree.. but that's what I think. .eu needs time but sometime in the future it will get popular IMO.

DD

.eu, .us, .asia... these extensions are dead in the water because they don't represent a cohesive target market, and never will. They're completely illogical from an end user's point of view, and their lack of popularity boldly illustrates that end user's don't understand them either. You're either marketing domestic products or services within Poland using a .pl, or you're marketing products and services to an international audience using the international .com standard. The rare exceptions to that rule will never be a large enough factor to compete with the billions of annual ad dollars spent worldwide on collective .com branding.

When all of Europe speaks one language, then start gradually investing in .eu (roughly 3,000 years from now). At that point it will make sense.

A funny joke would be even Lech Kaczy***324;ski doesn't believe in .EU. (slight euro skeptic)

[Daniel Dryzek]

@Sheldon People have different opinions regarding .eu domain name I will give it a chance. It is a new extension and I believe that people in EU will start to use it one day. People in Poland have already started using it. It is a very young extension and TLDs needs time to get popular.

I will also not agree that if you sell domains outside your country the only choice is .com. Many companies in EU sell to EU countries only and not to whole world. Other thing is that there were some researches made that show that people like .eu, because it is not so general as .com. If they see .eu domain name they know that company isn't from the other side of the world but from Europe.

And even if you sell global but you are from Europe (EU) it's nice to tell you are European by having this .eu domain name.

So I would really not be so pessimistic about .eu. Let's wait and see its future

DD

[Sheldon]

Originally Posted by Daniel Dryzek

@Sheldon People have different opinions regarding .eu domain name I will give it a chance. It is a new extension and I believe that people in EU will start to use it one day. People in Poland have already started using it. It is a very young extension and TLDs needs time to get popular.

I will also not agree that if you sell domains outside your country the only choice is .com. Many companies in EU sell to EU countries only and not to whole world. Other thing is that there were some researches made that show that people like .eu, because it is not so general as .com. If they see .eu domain name they know that company isn't from the other side of the world but from Europe.

And even if you sell global but you are from Europe (EU) it's nice to tell you are European by having this .eu domain name.

So I would really not be so pessimistic about .eu. Let's wait and see its future

DD

Daniel, how heavily did you invest in .eu? I ask because you're doing what I like to call the .mobi dance... the jig of a domainer who refuses to discuss or acknowledge the very glaring and obvious reasons as to why any given ill conceived domain extension is not as popular today as it should, could, would, or will be. It's not 1992, the land rush days are long gone, Poland only has 38 million people, and maybe half that figure regularly use the internet. The small fringe percentage of end users suited to .eu isn't going to abruptly change, unless Poland doubles in size over the next decade, and we both know that isn't going to happen.

I don't play the lottery, and I don't visit casinos. Start heavily investing in .us, .asia, .eu, .mobi, and you're straight gambling with your money. Yeah you can skim cash off the top of ultra premium keywords passed from trader to trader, but hoping for a payoff via a massive public exodus towards any new extension is "madness" to be frank.

Anyway, I won't even bother to discuss the hundreds of inherent flaws in .eu, since obviously you're not going to want to hear it. Google.pl's ranking algorithm favors .pl and .com over all other extensions for Polish results, though you probably know that already. We could discuss visitor confusion from all angles, domestic, EU based, and international, but again you probably won't want to hear that either... I'm yet to visit a shop or hotel in Poland that would knowingly cutout the international market share. Those that would or don't care are a tiny tiny minority.

I'm an end user and developer first and foremost, though I've traded in domains for nearly a decade. The "wait and see" approach you're advocating is the main cause of domainer extinction, seen that more times than I can count. Hope to see you around in 5 years dude, so be careful on those trips into the dark damp .eu jungle.

[Sheldon]

Let us please move past .eu in this discussion. I want to explore more specific elements of .com's secondary role of filling in the gaps of what isn't available for registration in .pl due to government ownership rights, specifically geo .coms in Poland. That was my original question, and I could care less about .eu, you can't register premium Polish geos in that extension either again because the Polish government controls them all.

I used gdansk.com as a purely hypothetical example, but I would be curious to know what value something like this would go for in today's market? Is it agreed upon that Gdansk.com is an easy low to mid six figure domain? I myself couldn't see anyone selling it for less. I don't own this domain, have no affiliation with it, will never have a chance to buy it, am just curious about what a rough valuation would be. My thoughts were to research and establish some form of valuation model for Polish .com geos, and then maybe buy a city .com with an under 500K population in Poland. My girlfriend is Polish, and we would like to develop a Polish city portal, but I want to be sure that I am making a reasonable offer on one should one become available for purchase. I obviously don't agree that I would be better off registering a garbage domain like TwojGdansk.pl over a clean and simple premium one word Gdansk.com. From a purely SEO point of view an old one word Polish .com will trump a two word fresh regged .pl any day of the week when ranked in Google.pl, I know that because I have tested it. I want to build a geo business on something with some real value, for Poland specific geos the only premium option is .com. Any help would be appreciated.

If anyone here owns a Polish city .com, PM me with a price, even it's a small town or city. My budget is around 250K Euros and below.

[500ml]

Good Discussion, although a .com geo city name would be my first choice, I think a .org, and .net geos would be good alternative starting points for someone that doesn't want to invest heavily, or have the necessary resources to purchase a .com.

Many will not agree with me, from domaining perspective, i understand. I still think there is room for more than one competing geo portal type of site for any major city in Poland, and Europe.